posted 06-30-2004 02:15 PM               

Wow! This guy is really onto something.
It's called Stupidity.

I like what boxer Mike Tyson said in today's paper. " I wasted my life. "

posted 07-10-2004 09:14 PM               

Now that you bring it up. . .

I've I’ve purposely laid low for the last week, posting only occasionally, because I had the impression many of the old-timers on this board had your view: ignore these Moore blowhards and they’ll go away. In deference to you and others, I contributed my small part by keeping my trap shut for just a short while. And, as you and the others have predicted, they’ve seemed to have moved on to other things. Perhaps you all were right.

But I’m not so sure they would’ve moved on otherwise. Many of them seemed to be just a “hit and post” kind of visitor who spewed their venom and moved on anyway. Those who remained behind for an exchange or two might’ve learned something from having their views challenged. Not likely, I’ll admit, but at least we had the chance to evangelize. We might not have had a chance otherwise.

I think it’s a mistake to allow these thugs to spout their views without being challenged. To remain silent implies agreement. I did the best I could, considering my time and energy, and others did far better than I’m capable. No one has asked for, nor have I offered, apologies for the responses I made; I followed our unspoken rules around here and kept it civil and clean. But if my responses in any way prolonged this agony, I sincerely apologize for the part I might've played in it.

Best,

posted 07-11-2004 12:51 AM               

Prolonged the agony? Hardly.

posted 07-11-2004 01:15 PM               

I'm with you in your prediction. I stand ready.

Best,

posted 07-11-2004 05:15 PM               

Don't knowexact figures for the United States, but it's in the tens of millions. You have regular cable, then you have digital cable, and the 'dish', which also gets lots of the cable programs and sends the signal all over the world. Japan alone has over 25 million digital cable subscribers.

posted 07-11-2004 05:15 PM               

Yes, it's cable. Here in Oklahoma City, the CNBC is bundled together with the other cable news channels. I wonder, if you have cable, if your cable company similarly bundled the networks.

If not, for you, and others, I'm sure those of us who will be able to watch will be able to provide a blow by blow.

Best,

posted 07-16-2004 03:08 PM               

Interesting read.

posted 07-17-2004 08:17 AM               

I've heard much about "Michael Moore is a Big. . ." that agrees with your take on the book. An off-putting title for a book that takes a serious look at Moore's pathology. Exerpts I've read seem right on target.

Others might find these links to be valuable: http://www.moorelies.com/, which is the website for the book you mentioned. And http://fahrenheit_fact.blogspot.com/, which is, in my opinion, an even-handed take-down of the "facts" in F-9/11. On this latter site are other links to other Moore sites, both pro and con, though the pro sites seemed to have grown weary with defending Moore. (That or their arguments have been proven wrong.)

At the risk of fanning the recently extinguished flames on this board, I invite my Moore-supporting friends on this site to review these sites and see if they're useful.

And, Mr. Dark, when you're through with the book, may I borrow it?

Best,

posted 07-22-2004 09:33 AM               

Welcome back. You've been missed. No, really.

I can't make the links work either. You're right, probably dispensing too much truth. Let me see if I can get them to work.

For the book Mr. Dark mentions, try this: http://www.moorelies.com/

For a discussion of F-9/11 facts, with links both pro and con to Moore and his movie, try this: http://fahrenheit_fact.blogspot.com/

Best,

Pete

Update:

Just checked the above links and they're working as of 8:37 a.m. CST. Don't know why they didn't work in my first post. Try 'em now.

Pete

posted 07-22-2004 01:02 PM               

"Moore groups the Iraq/Al Qaeda connection under the word "falsehoods". But there is a well-documented Iraq/Al Qaeda connection.

Dave Kopel writes:

...consider the facts presented in Stephen F. Hayes's book,
The Connection : How al Qaeda's Collaboration with Saddam Hussein Has
Endangered America (N.Y.: HarperCollins, 2004). The first paragraph of..."

According to the author, there is a connection between AlQ and Iraq. Now, it is a generally well accepted fact that no two things in this world are unconnected - that is, one particle one one side of the universe is connected to another by some causality chain - which means one can argue that there is a connection between absolutely anything. Moore was claiming that there was no connection between Iraq and AlQ of a workable sort, that is, of a sort that creates a "creative" symbiosis between the two. This was proven over and over again, most recently by the US 911 comission, and previously by Bush himself. The "myth debunker" from this website seems to have a differnt opinion, and brings in a book as proof. If I was a bit more ignorant of the issues, I might have believed him, but I am not. Thus, this myth-debunking looks to me very amateurish and not very well researched. If you wish, I can bring in other so called "myths" in to the picture and we can examine each of them one by one, to see whether they really are "Moore's lies", or rather an attempt to misconstrue what Moore meant.

posted 07-22-2004 01:29 PM               

Thanks but no need. I offered these sites for those wishing to find further, in-depth discussions about Moore's movie. It's important to note that these sites refer to Moore's deceptions. Some may be outright lies but the 36 or so listed at the Fahrenheit Fact site and the 50+ listed on Dave Kopel's site ought to give you plenty to chew on. Because you disagree with the conclusion of one, or several, points doesn't mean they're poorly researched or amateurish. I'm not recommending these sites, Moore's film, or even your statements as the final word on any of this. I recommend a variety of information sources before coming to a conclusion.

Best,

Pete

Translator,

I checked the links again and as of 7:22 CST, they're working. I have no explanation why they won't work for you.

I've also taken another look at Kopel's point about an Al-Q and Iraq connection and I think you might've been a little misleading in your own post. You left out any reference to Kopel's long litany of connections between Al-Q and Iraq throughout the 90s. Are you flatly denying all of Kopel's points? No, Iraq didn't pack the 9/11 planes with terrorists. Kopel doesn't claim this and neither does anyone quoted in the transcript of F-9/11. (I presume you have no quarrel with the accuracy of that exerpt.) But surely you'll agree the connection between Al-Q and Iraq was a wee bit more than a mere causal relationship that somehow links everything in the universe with everything else. Moore seems to be implying there was no connection at all.

Best,

Pete

posted 08-14-2004 02:59 PM               

When all the remakes of bad movies continue to discontinue their vast array of blockbustering attempts at storytelling...old, faded, paperback editions of THE OCTOBER COUNTRY...will grow new voices, colors, souls and hopes of storytelling...no matter where they're born in.

Bradbury's work will live on in the blank pages of new writers with new visions, fueling them with the fires of their own original tongues.

Bradbury's works are his loves, and they won't ever die or be burned off of bookshelves, or forgotten about. Because that's where his soul has always been...long before he ever earned a penny for filling up the blank page.

That's not being a hack.