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Author Topic:   Looking for Bibilography HELP
rzjomb
Junior Member
posted 11-20-2004 03:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rzjomb   Click Here to Email rzjomb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Ya'll,
I need to know some info that i'm having trouble finding. I'm doing some textual work on Fahrenheit 451, which we know Ballantine printed in a censored form for 13 + years. But as I'm working, I'm also finding discrepancies (not as exstensive, but still major) in the Simon and Schuster printings. Can anyone tell me what the copy-text was for the S and S printings?

And, can anyone tell me FOR SURE what the origional date was in the line -- "We've started two atomic wars since ____" ?

Thanks

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Mr. Dark
Member
posted 11-20-2004 07:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mr. Dark   Click Here to Email Mr. Dark     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd like to help, but I'm going to have to defer to some of the scholars on the board.

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celsius233
Junior Member
posted 11-20-2004 10:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for celsius233     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've checked both Ballantine paperback first edition (precedes hardcover by 4-6 weeks) and Ballantine hardcover first one (red boards lettered in yellow).
Both printed as:

"We've started and won two atomic wars since 1960!"

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rzjomb
Junior Member
posted 11-21-2004 12:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rzjomb   Click Here to Email rzjomb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Celsius, It helps a lot and I found some other texts to corraborate that.

Question, Dandilion or anyone who has authority, the discrepancy between 1960 and 1990 is profound, the impact is serious. What does Bradbury feel about this? Is he aware of it?

Still looking for help on the S&S printings! Thanks much,

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Richard
Member
posted 11-21-2004 07:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Richard     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
rzjomb, the following link has beeen posted on this site before, but it will give you a very good idea of what Ray Bradbury thinks about censorship and other changes to his written work, that have occurred in the past without his knowledge and permission:

http://www.angelfire.com/ga/page451/raybradbury.html

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rzjomb
Junior Member
posted 11-21-2004 11:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rzjomb   Click Here to Email rzjomb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Though I thank you for the effort, that link is basically the coda from F451 which I'm very aware of. That's how he feels about taking language a nuetering it to make it more paletable to people. However, the textual variation I'm asking about (the date) isn't one that impacts a "group" per se, yet is an important detail. I would like to know, did Bradbury later authorize the change from "1960" to "1990"? Is he aware of that variation--not does he get mad because people don't like him cussing or dipicting characters in a crtain way (that we know).

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dandelion
Moderator
posted 11-22-2004 04:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dandelion   Click Here to Email dandelion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A lot of the dates in "The Martian Chronicles" were changed in later printings to reflect historical reality. I somewhat doubt he would authorize such a change in "Fahrenheit 451," as sometime after 1960 but long before 1990 (I would say probably before 1980) Bradbury changed his mind about the world being destroyed by nuclear war and said so. It does, however, make some sense, as the society described would have to exist long after 1960.

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celsius233
Junior Member
posted 11-24-2004 10:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for celsius233     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
rzjomb,

Some friends of mine were kindly enough to check the year of all available different editions of F451.
Hope this helps your study to some extent.

1953 Ballantine 1st 1960
1960 Ballantine 2nd 1960
1962 Ballantine 3rd 1960
1962 Rupert Hart-Davis 3rd 1960
1967 Simon & Schuster (Book Club) 1960
1967 Simon & Schuster 7th 1960
1968 Ballantine 13th 1960
1980 DelRey 53rd 1990
1982 Limited Editions Club 1990
1987 Octopus/Heinemann 1990
1991 Del Rey paperback 1990
1991 Easton Press 1960
1992? Del Rey (Ballantine) (Book Club) 1990
1993 Simon & Schuster (40th anniversary) 2022
2001 Book Of the Month Club 1960
2001 Harper Audio (Read by the Author) 1990
2003 Simon & Schuster (50th anniversary) 2022
2003 DelRey (50th anniversary) 1990

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rzjomb
Junior Member
posted 11-24-2004 01:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rzjomb   Click Here to Email rzjomb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Celsius, I do have to say YOU ROCK!!! it's a bit odd though because I have the S&S 1993 (40th ed) and my copy says 1960s--but this is all good info to have and makes the paper that much more fun yes, I'm a geek but hey it's fun.

I was wondering if you could do me a favor though--I don't have access to a Ballantine 53 copy which is technically the "perferred text" and I have a two variants I was wondering if you could check for me? If so THANKS!!!
1st: In Clarisse's monologue about how teens her age hurt eachother and don't talk about anything she has a line: "And most of the time in the _______ they have the joke boxes on and the same jokes most of the time" What does Ballantine 1953 have in the blank?

2nd: Just after Montag has discovered Mildred in her suicide attempt there is the paragraph about the sound of the jets: "There was a tremendous ripping sound as if two giant hands had torn ten thousand miles of black ______ down the seam." again 1953?

Thanks SOOOOOOOO much for this. I'll have to find some way to repay you.

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patrask
Member
posted 11-24-2004 09:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for patrask   Click Here to Email patrask     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
1. cafes
2. linen
from BB #41 1953

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celsius233
Junior Member
posted 11-25-2004 10:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for celsius233     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
patrask,
Thanks for your prompt response on my behalf.

rzjomb,
I have double-checked my own copy of the S&S 1993 (40th ed), which clearly says "2022" on page 101. Does this mean S&S had published (at least) two different versions at the same time? Very odd and interesting!

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rzjomb
Junior Member
posted 11-25-2004 12:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rzjomb   Click Here to Email rzjomb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, I even just double checked. I have the hardback S&S 93 edition and on 101 it says 1960--weird. hehehe--okay. I got to get to writing but thanks sooo much to all of you!!

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dandelion
Moderator
posted 11-25-2004 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dandelion   Click Here to Email dandelion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So they changed the date, but left the earlier term "atomic" rather than using the more modern "nuclear"?

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celsius233
Junior Member
posted 12-01-2004 09:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for celsius233     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29223&item=6938228367&rd=1

Maybe I've resolved the oddity, rzjomb.
You own a book with the same appearance as above, don't you? That's special edition issued only 500 copies (all signed and numbered)!

My copy is also the hardcover 40th anniversary one, but not limited edition, issued 7500 copies, nor in slipcase.

So, we could modify our list:

1993 S&S special edition 1960
1993 S&S (popular edition) 2022

Dazed and confused...

[This message has been edited by celsius233 (edited 12-01-2004).]

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