posted 06-19-2004 07:35 AM               

Everyone I know is disgusted by RB's decision to step into the national discussion around 911 and the roots of terrorism as a spoiler under the guise of , what? protecting his intellectual property?

posted 06-19-2004 08:07 AM               

Here's an update on this fladoodle: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54126-2004Jun19.html

Let's see if I can simplify this for these people: Let's say Shakespeare were alive. And let's say I wrote a book about two young lovers who die tragically in the end. And let's say I call it Romeo and Juliet. Only my work is fairly lousy. Or, at least not up to the standards of Mr. Shakespeare. Don't you think that Mr. Shakespeare would have a legitimate gripe for a sub-standard writer like myself who tries to glom onto his hard work and inspiration. I mean, there's something implied by borrowing a title from a famous work that implies the new work is somehow related. (Moore's lame explanation is that Fahrenheit 9/11 is the temperature at which freedom burns. Only from what I've been able to find out about the movie, precious little time is spent discussing this alleged lack of freedom and more time trashing Bush and his war effort.) Similar themes, similar quality. From what I can tell, the two works share very little, if anything at all.

So Moore's clod-hopperish title grab is nothing more than a marketing ploy (As was his false story of how Disney was trying to censor him.): I'll imply with my title that there's some serious erosion of liberties going on.

While I can admire Moore's ability to generate interest in his work - and I admire him for being able to take what appears to be a limited, though very real, talent for supposed muck-raking and turning it into a profitable enterprise - I can't help but think this will hurt him in the long run. If he has any sense of self, of introspection, I believe he'll come to regret his actions. He could have found another way to market his film but chose not to. That's too bad. For him and his supporters.

Best,

posted 06-19-2004 08:54 AM            

The link was good. Thanks. Moore should have responded to RB six months ago not one week. His avoidance behavior toward RB is classless and cowardly. I think, at this point, Moore should rename the film by just omitting the word "Fahrenheit". "9-11" should suffice.

posted 06-19-2004 02:43 PM               

As an author Bradbury should recognize that book titles--and even their plots--are not protected in the manner he suggests. A more appropriate analogy (than the wholly off the mark R&J link) would be Randall's "The Wind Done Gone."

Despite my initial quip,my respect for Mr. Bradbury's work runs deep.

posted 06-19-2004 04:55 PM               

These views are less important than whether there are soldiers dying in a war now, and less important than whether we get our alerts up as to how decisions come to be made so that our fellow human beings are sacrificing their lives far far away from our huge malls, SUVs and TVs, movie theatres and mansions.

I had an opinion about Ray and Moore's "conflict" but I will now withold it. Sharing it will not cause us to really understand the possibility of co-existing despite differences, will it? There can be alot of "intellectual" or what not arguments, and that is why LAWYERS sometimes help not so innocent people win. But this is not about being smart. This is what is TRUE. I hope we can all quiet down and allow our hearts to speak, and devote our energies to helping ourselves live in a better world.

posted 06-19-2004 11:32 PM               

6/12 Cyber -Assault on the Bradbury site

I agree. All these postings swarmed in on cue. Anybody thought this could possibly happen here?

posted 06-20-2004 12:05 AM               

Thus, no matter how much RB and those who complained about Michael Moore's tactic in this forum may gripe, all RB is doing is giving additional PR to Moore's project.

Moore has done nothing actionable (and really doesn't even owe RB any sort of call at all. (I agree, though, if he said he would call, he should not have waited 6 weeks)

It may be true, as the Associated Press said, that RB is re-releasing his book this year AND that a movie is being developed from it. Congratulations to RB! The Moore controversy will certainly draw people to the box office for RB's new movie too.

posted 06-20-2004 03:55 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by grav8e:
I'm against censorship. That DOES NOT mean that I think anyone should be forced to supply the means for a person's voice to be heard. Moore knew a year ago that Disney would not distribute the film...he's just using the issue to stir up controversy.
Moore uses lies, stretched truths and creative editing to advance his leftist agenda.
The fact is it doesn't matter whether Mr. Bradbury agrees with the subject of the film or not...the spirit of the film is intended to strike a specific target at a specific time to do the most political damage possible. He won't even mention the 8 years of neglect on the part of the Clinton administration. It's a completely lopsided account, not of "government" abuses, not a social commentary...but a personal attack.

Bradbury is far above that and he has earned my deepest respect over the years for not sinking into the political arena like so many other celebrities. I love the fact that he comments on issues that bring us together...not issues that divide us.

---

Sounds just like Fox telling Al Franken that he cannot use the phrase "fair and balanced".

A web site started by the neo-cons called "moveamericaforward.org" are trying to pressure movie owners from showing the film.

"...I love the fact that he comments on issues that bring us together...not issues that divide us..." Isn't it interesting that this adminastration and the world and the country behind him right after 9/11, but do to their incompentence and arrogance, 90% of the world dislikes us, and this country is more polarized than I can even remember.

What a contradiction on the meaning of "Fahrenheit 451".

posted 06-20-2004 09:11 AM               

I think Ray Bradbury is a good man. I was shocked that he took this stance. I have read several articles since first hearing of Bradbury's problem and have these thoughts:
1)if Bradbury is acting on his own, he is grabbing for attention or just being uptight or greedy
2)if Bradbury's hand is being forced by Disney, then he should come out and say it, the public outcry would hurt Disney
3)if Bradbury's hand is being forced by the government or if Disney is being forced by the government then they should come out and say it, the American people need and want the truth

P.S. Elections are coming, don't lose sight of the goal. The goal is the advancement and betterment of our civilization, not only as Americans, but as Human Beings first and foremost. This election is huge, freedom most win!!! If you are a Human who wants to promote truth, freedom, and wants to put control of this government back into the peoples hands, then truly consider ALL FACTS before you place your important vote. Ray Bradbury is regestired as an independent, good for him. The way we should go is to register as indepentents, this will show our numbers, and will add to our power. When you vote, your motive should be the advancement and betterment of Human Beings. When this is your motive, it is much easier to make the best decision.

Evolve daily,
K

[This message has been edited by rawevolution (edited 06-20-2004).]

posted 06-20-2004 10:26 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nard Kordell:
pterran:

6/12 Cyber -Assault on the Bradbury site

I agree. All these postings swarmed in on cue. Anybody thought this could possibly happen here?

---

This respectfully goes out to all members who frequented this site before the flood of people you are now experiencing.

I WAS NOT DIRECTED HERE BY ANY SITE OR ANY ONE!!!

I found my way here myself, because I believe in truth and freedom and Human Beings. I came here to say "Please Mr. Bradbury, tell the truth, someone told you to fart out of your mouth, but tell me if it was you or your movie and book advisors, perhaps someone else?"

Calling all Humans, if you want the truth then truly search for it. Scroll down and find the post's by "DrMikeBuch" and "human"

[This message has been edited by rawevolution (edited 06-20-2004).]

posted 06-20-2004 03:31 PM               

I don't care for Moore one way or the other, but I fail to see Bradbury's case.

Someone is playing someone here. Either Moore is getting extra publicity, or Bradbury just got his name into a larger portion of the public. I got a feeling that both parties are going to make out.

I wanted to email Ray personally. If you can, please pass my message on to him.

posted 06-20-2004 05:55 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by dandelion:
Can anyone find out where they're all coming from?

---

The ether of the net? It's no mysterey just google where articles on this have been posted and find where the link to this site is also added.

posted 06-20-2004 06:00 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by water4me:
I didn't get directed by a Moore site. I was informed about the situation by my local news station.

[This message has been edited by water4me (edited 06-20-2004).]

---

I came here through the BBC site, where I heard the news about Bradbury's response. Someone else I chat to said they had read stuff here through the use of just googling their way here. There is only one sad irony of all this I guess and that perhaps Bradbury himself is being censored? Maybe he has the right to express a feeling or response not matter how stupid and not be mugged online by types like myself who feel he is wrong. Perhaps when someone naive steps into the arena of politics and says something dumb the pseduo-Darwinian process of lynching the weakest should be put on hold until the iniate is a little more aware. Just because Ray Bradbury is a great perceptive author might not mean he has a clue how to cope with modern politics and the internet. I wonder if he or his press person are reading any of this?

posted 06-20-2004 07:50 PM               

I came to this site to see what others thought of the Bradbury-Fahrenheit911 "controversy" and am please to see so many different viewpoints.

The clearest thing here is that certain media outlets will use Bradbury's statements to discredit Moore, his movie, and his message. I do not think it is impossible to consider that Bradbury was influenced by executives at either his publishing company or the company remaking the F451 movie. Without proof though, that's total conjecture.

It's fine for Bradbury to be defensive about his intellectual property, but pro-Bush, anti-Moore legions will try to use Bradbury's recent statements as proof that Moore is clumsy in his satire, when actually I find Moore's arguements are usually very sharp, clever, and eerily true. I would really like to see Bradbury in the next week come out swinging against Bush and Co, to show that he and Michael Moore are, in fact, in the same corner of the ring.

As far as the title goes, it's not going to be changed, it's an homage to a fantastic classic of modern literature, and the message resonates on several levels. The judges and audiences at Cannes this year saw the power of Moore's work in conjunction with Bradbury's, and this week Americans will get to see it too.

posted 06-20-2004 10:02 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr. Dark:
Censorship typically involves government's restriction of information (typically prior restriction) -- not private industry's decision as to whether or not to market a product.

They're different issues. They're related, but still different.

[This message has been edited by Mr. Dark (edited 05-06-2004).]

---

posted 06-20-2004 10:09 PM               

Nice post. You and I will likely disagree on much but I admire your style. You express your opinion and recognize conjecture when you make it, all in a civil tone. A lesson the rest of our "guests" might learn from.

(By the way, I disagree that Conservatives and Bush supporters will use Bradbury's statements to discredit Moore. The whole incident, in my view, reflects poorly on Moore but doesn't directly address the content of his movie. Conservatives will have to directly confront the movie itself and I think they will. Moore's prior record with the distortion of the truth in Bowling for Columbine tells me he's likely taken liberties in this movie. We'll see how it plays out.)

Best,

posted 06-20-2004 11:25 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by dandelion:
Can anyone find out where they're all coming from?

---

If this board is like mine, the moderators/admins should be able to see the IPs of the various posters. (I'd put good money on a number of them being same person registered under different names.)

posted 06-21-2004 01:45 PM            

I am unfamiliar with Mr. Bradbury's politics but he must understand
thast his attack on Moore will be spun as support for the Bush
Administration and their mistaken militaristic adventure. I feel both
these author's works are done in support of human dignity and freedom.
It is also my belief that "Farenheit 451" is about the power of words
and the freedom to use them. To the extent that Moore's film title is a

reference to Mr.Bradbury's anti-fascist novel, or to Francois Truffaut's

film based on it, I urge Mr. Bradbury to see it as an homage. It is
unfortunate that Mr. Bradbury's objection will detract from the popular
reception of this highly important film.

Further, Mr. Bradbury should realize that the title, "Farenheit 9/11" is

essentially different from the title "Farenheit 451" and, unless Mr.
Bradbury has a copyright on the word "farenheit", it is unlikely that he

posted 06-21-2004 01:52 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr. Dark:
Again, get the story right. Bradbury has NEVER claimed copyrights to the title. It's about Moore's classlessness in hijacking the title against Bradbury's wishes

---

posted 06-21-2004 02:01 PM            

In light of your efforts to compel Michael Moore to apologize for borrowing his "Fahrenheit 911" title from your story "Fahrenheit 451," we are writing to inquire into the status of your own public apologies regarding your works entitled "Something Wicked This Way Comes," "I Sing the Body Electric!," "No Man is an Island" and "Remembrance of Things Future."

posted 06-21-2004 02:11 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bomar.Monk:
I'm actually Moore... I mean MORE disturbed that Michael Moore's title alludes to one of Bradbury's works. As far as I'm concerned, Moore could well be the best propoganda writer for 1984's ministry of information. Bradbury, on the other-hand, is a writer of integrity, real imagination, and heart.

---